I was reading Malcolm Godwin's book today. Big ass book, really good book on lucid dreaming. It's called The Lucid Dreamer, A Waking Guide for the Traveler Between Worlds. Printed in 1994. Remember that date. I had heard many years ago that alot of stuff was lifted from Gurdjieff by shorty. Since I never read any of Gurdjieff's stuff I could never really comment. I just didn't know. But I heard the rumor so often that I knew there was much to it. We now have a real slam-dunker. The part about finding your hands in dreaming IS a good way to become lucid. I myself actually used this the first time I became lucid. It works. No doubt about it. It is effective to become lucid. So does all the TBer's still think shorty got this idea from his teacher? I think the real story was that his teacher told him to look for his pincho in dreaming but since the publishers could not get away with printing that he had to settle for finding the hands. How convenient eh? Just so convenient. So we have Malcolm Godwin stating that this was a technique that Gurdjieff and disciples used over 70 years ago! That would be sometime in 1924. Those guys got results from this technique three to six months later. No weird magical passes, no stalking, no screwin' around. No sorcerer's way or any of that crap. Just plain old technique. See how easy it is for shorty to state: "I invented nothing"? Of course, the little twerp pimped the idea from another author. Library sorcery at it's best. :)

wildheart in ixtlan wrote... I get the feeling I'm standing all alone in the desert > yelling into the wind, so sad. ### - so who's to say that this feeling of standing all alone in a desert yelling into the wind isn't a true feeling that everyone who's awake automatically experiences/shares? "Welcome neo... to the wasteland." --matrix ;)

wildheart wrote... >> wildheart in ixtlan wrote... >> >> I get the feeling I'm standing all alone in the desert >> >> > yelling into the wind, so sad. >> >> ### - so who's to say that this feeling of standing all alone in a desert >> yelling into the wind isn't a true feeling that everyone who's awake >> automatically experiences/shares? >> >> "Welcome neo... to the wasteland." --matrix ;) > > Hey slider, that's good. actually I was completely alone when I first > started with CC, starting reading the books again in '97 after finding > them in a box of books I had stored away, didn't tell anyone, I was > single at the time and only working weekends, read the books, in > order, from Mon. to Fri. almost non-stop, it just flowed baby, my > whole life changed after that. and I went to the desert for real! > moved to tucson AZ. anyway, I may not be as active as I used to be in > "it" because of choices I made a few years ago, but it's like it's > still there, with me, just very quiet. something is pulling me back, > don't know why. ### - there's no rational whys & wherefores with intent and intending... and imho a mon to fri read-through of all that material is no small feat of concentration/prolonged-effort on the one subject alone whereby a door can be opened in awareness and a probe sent though to gather information on the other hand it appears that 'any' prolonged concentration on virtually any subject will yield the same results providing one has the presence of mind (and the expectation of doing it) to just spin on one's heel and start exploring the near-unknown once that door has opened... observation also suggests that people unwittingly make this journey all the time and it hardly makes any difference to them... but when it's achieved 'consciously/deliberately' then it's a different matter in that one's awareness from then on becomes forever altered to include that very possibility ;)

wildheart wrote... > > >> ### - there's no rational whys & wherefores with intent and intending... >> and >> imho a mon to fri read-through of all that material is no small feat of >> concentration/prolonged-effort on the one subject alone whereby a door >> can >> be opened in awareness and a probe sent though to gather information > > It was very concentrated, I wouldn't answer my phone, just let the > ans.mach. pick up, and you are so right, a probe was sent out to me, > the first in the form of a black crow, yea I know, sounds corny, but > it's true, I was sitting on my sofa reading JTI, my sliding door was > open in front of me with the screen door closed, suddenly I heard a > really loud CAW-CAW, really really loud, it startled me, I looked up > and saw a black crow sitting on the fence that surrounded my little > patio, it was staring right at me, I mean we were eyeball to eyeball > staring. Time stopped for me and I have no idea how long we stared at > each other, the crow finally let out a loud CAW and flew away. My > heart was pounding, took my breath away, I looked down at the book and > thought, "OMG the book is coming to life!" For the next 3 years the > world was turned upside down for me, so much happened, and no one can > can tell me that Carlos was a fake, not the real Carlos, I know from > my own personal experiences he was the real thing. ### - i meant that your own prolonged concentration opened a door and thus YOU sent through the probe that brought forth/elicited a response from the other side... contextually a crow in this instance, but it also works with just about anything really... 'any' context... e.g. concentrate on just about 'any' question/subject for long enough and it makes things happen surrounding that question/subject, very strange :) the challenge is to choose our contexts sanely ;-)

lennybernadino wrote... >> >> wildheart in ixtlan wrote... >> >> >> I get the feeling I'm standing all alone in the desert >> >> >> > yelling into the wind, so sad. >> >> >> ### - so who's to say that this feeling of standing all alone in a >> >> desert >> >> yelling into the wind isn't a true feeling that everyone who's awake >> >> automatically experiences/shares? >> >> >> "Welcome neo... to the wasteland." --matrix ;) >> >> > Hey slider, that's good. actually I was completely alone when I first >> > started with CC, starting reading the books again in '97 after finding >> > them in a box of books I had stored away, didn't tell anyone, I was >> > single at the time and only working weekends, read the books, in >> > order, from Mon. to Fri. almost non-stop, it just flowed baby, my >> > whole life changed after that. and I went to the desert for real! >> > moved to tucson AZ. anyway, I may not be as active as I used to be in >> > "it" because of choices I made a few years ago, but it's like it's >> > still there, with me, just very quiet. something is pulling me back, >> > don't know why. >> >> ### - there's no rational whys & wherefores with intent and intending... >> and >> imho a mon to fri read-through of all that material is no small feat of >> concentration/prolonged-effort on the one subject alone whereby a door >> can >> be opened in awareness and a probe sent though to gather information >> >> on the other hand it appears that 'any' prolonged concentration on >> virtually >> any subject will yield the same results providing one has the presence of >> mind (and the expectation of doing it) to just spin on one's heel and >> start >> exploring the near-unknown once that door has opened... >> >> observation also suggests that people unwittingly make this journey all >> the >> time and it hardly makes any difference to them... but when it's achieved >> 'consciously/deliberately' then it's a different matter in that one's >> awareness from then on becomes forever altered to include that very >> possibility ;)- Ocultar texto de la cita - >> >> - Mostrar texto de la cita - > > Haha that is exactly my experience because my world has always been > very strange , unwitting journeys or whatnot . ### - smile, life IS strange, IS weird, IS incredibly wonderful, IS amazing, IS actually a gift! which runs contrary to the main thrust and enforced sociological and scientifically rationalised belief that it's all something quite ordinary and very explainable, not special and/or is merely the result of chemical reactions etc etc, blah blah blah, effectively 'dulling' humanity to the point of justifying the spending of one's whole life, for example, in a factory... which eventually becomes an acceptable if not desirable goal :) Then personally > momentous events intoduced me to my father and the books and as soon > as I opened Journey to Ixtlan first I looked in the book, it said the > world was strange and then I looked at the world and very strange > things started to happen and I noticed them becuse I was looking out > for them and the books had such great ideas. ### - we find what we were groomed to look for... is the simple answer iow as members of a society we automatically and unquestioningly accept the version of reality we're initially presented with and fight to defend it to keep it intact as a working model/belief... such are our psychic abilities to manipulate our own (or even borrowed) sense of reality stepping away from that fixed pov even a bit opens up the possibility of perceiving 100's of different models/beliefs leading to the realisation that 'acting' as though something is real is what 'makes' it real to... believing without believing iow... hehe :) > I think a lot of the bad rap for Carlos is that most people who > want to practise this kind of stuff do not want to make a serious > commitment they just want to do something cool like lucid dreaming and > live besides that in any way, so they sneer at the warriors way wich > is a very demanding way to try to live because somehow they have silly > feelings of guilt for not following it unless it is discrredited as > the worthless stuff . And because his seminars and tensegrity stuff > he was doing while being dragged down by the stone was composed of a > lot of bullshit . Just some random thoughts, I deffinitely belifieve > that the practises in Carlosbook have power but may not work for many > people . And of course the idea of learning stalking for a lot of > dreamers I can say is totally overwhelming , I mean it seems really > hard to pull off all the time but you gotta learn it or believe it is > bullshit or honestly ssay I am a lazy bastard and will have a hard > time with that challenge . ### - ultimately what 'other' people do or believe in/think... is irrelevant... especially for those moving away from the mass/bulk beliefs of the rest of humanity and because life is actually an incredibly personal thing in that what works for one (as a path) wont necessarily work as well for another... always bearing in mind that the destination (one's arrival) will not necessarily be the same as the trickster-path leading to it... e.g. see bruce lee's film: 'The Silent Flute' where at the end the main character realises that he's free to do what he wants, which includes the possibility of returning to the world (as his blind teacher did) to invent 'new' games to pull certain types out of the daily/wallyworld dream ;)

wildheart wrote... >> >> ### - there's no rational whys & wherefores with intent and >> >> intending... >> >> and >> >> imho a mon to fri read-through of all that material is no small feat >> >> of >> >> concentration/prolonged-effort on the one subject alone whereby a door >> >> can >> >> be opened in awareness and a probe sent though to gather information >> >> > It was very concentrated, I wouldn't answer my phone, just let the >> > ans.mach. pick up, and you are so right, a probe was sent out to me, >> > the first in the form of a black crow, yea I know, sounds corny, but >> > it's true, I was sitting on my sofa reading JTI, my sliding door was >> > open in front of me with the screen door closed, suddenly I heard a >> > really loud CAW-CAW, really really loud, it startled me, I looked up >> > and saw a black crow sitting on the fence that surrounded my little >> > patio, it was staring right at me, I mean we were eyeball to eyeball >> > staring. Time stopped for me and I have no idea how long we stared at >> > each other, the crow finally let out a loud CAW and flew away. My >> > heart was pounding, took my breath away, I looked down at the book and >> > thought, "OMG the book is coming to life!" For the next 3 years the >> > world was turned upside down for me, so much happened, and no one can >> > can tell me that Carlos was a fake, not the real Carlos, I know from >> > my own personal experiences he was the real thing. >> >> ### - i meant that your own prolonged concentration opened a door and >> thus >> YOU sent through the probe that brought forth/elicited a response from >> the >> other side... contextually a crow in this instance, but it also works >> with >> just about anything really... 'any' context... > > I kinda disagree, yes a person can send out a probe, but I feel that > when we open ourselves up to certain energies/vibrations we get a > response back, sometimes that "opening up" is noticed and an > interested party (for whatever reason) sends a probe to check it/us > out. ### - actually we kind of agree but just using different terms etc hehe... and because yes 'opening up' as you describe it is (or can be) the same as knocking on the door (sending a probe as i called it) but the effect/result is the same, in which case it's really just a matter of how one subjectively describes the experience... on the other hand it's hard to tell just who's knocking on who's door sometimes, you go to it or it comes to you but the result is the same either way: an opportunity to explore :) I know that CC went into many people dreams and either observed > or participated, he did it to me and others that I know. Of course > I'm straying, dreaming is a whole other subject. ### - admittedly i had a few, very odd dreams, about him and his people myself, very strange hehe, e.g. he turned up the first time dressed as sherlock friggin' holmes! (no-shit sherlock! haha! :) :)

cat wrote... > However I don't know if it was my own imagination, probes from inside > or out, I was simply nuts, or it was really CC or someone connected to > him. But it was amazing and it was part of my history. ### - well said... no answers, just the experiences explaining themselves :) The > memories of the enigma of what the CC works and other shamanic works > brought to me was a valuable part of my existance. It had an essence > of wonderment about it that I have lost over the last number of years. ### - just turns out that approaching one's life from the pov of personal wonderment and discovery from the pov of a journey of awareness is more refreshing and/or rejuvenating than expertly working the dull/polished routines of a somewhat predictable life in society ever was! :) > > Now it kind of whispers to me again. But being different now, I see > it differently. My only intention is to allow it to unfold naturally > and to observe it's outcome in whatever way it unfolds. ### - one merely learns (through discipline) to hold the rational mind in check in order to allow non-logical/non-linear events to be registered instead of filtered-out... one learns to 'let it happen' and take notes :) One of my > thoughts is that it is the people that the Castaneda works attracted > that are creating this energy, rather than CC himself. But he's the > figurehead, the grand-daddy of it all and so I respect him for that. ### - a curious idea anyway cat... or maybe it was always there to tap/deep-dive into, who knows ;)